My
de-conversion story is cross-posted on the awesome blog and website
Main Street Plaza, where I received the following comment from Jeremy:
The Lord had more faith in you than you had in yourself it seems. You didn't need bells and whistles, angels and heavenly choirs. The evidences were all around you, think back and remember.
The dead end road you're on is easier, I'll grant you that, but it's short and not going anywhere.
I dare you to go to church the very next Sunday after you read this, no excuses, no prior plans, just go one last time and try the experiment one last time. If you can do it with integrity you will have met my burden of proof and then you'll have my blessing.
No excuses, no chickening out. What have you got to lose? A lack of belief?
I promise you that if you go you will know it is true. The Lord knows the end from the beginning and He isn't ever going to give up on you or anyone else. Don't give up on Him.
And my response:
Hi Jeremy, I've been on my road away from the Church for almost five years now, and I can tell you that it's anything but a dead end. I made an honest try at going back. If there is a god, he knows that, and if he would condemn me for refusing to submit to an abusive belief system, then he does not deserve my worship. And also, since many members of my family are still LDS, I have gone to a few church services since leaving and still find no reason to believe in it.
The evidence was all around me? I beg to differ.
I didn't try hard enough? Oh, yes I did.
Have you given "apostasy" an honest try? If you read my story, then you know that I concluded that the Church was false without reading anything "anti-Mormon." But I'm curious, have you read any "anti-Mormon" critiques of the Church, or critiques of religion in general? What do you have to lose? If you lose your faith, it wasn't worth having anyway.
What do I have to lose by going to church? How about time with my family? Contrary to a misconceived belief, we do not get to be with our families forever, and I'd rather spend our Sundays enjoying each other than sitting in meetings.
Mmm, unfettered thought feels so good...
Some people just don't get it.
If you enjoyed this post, I hope you'll check out my new blog.
Well put! I find that "you didn't try hard enough/didn't have enough faith/didn't have a broken heart and a contrite spirit" argument SO insulting. What they are implying is that not only did you not receive your promised answer, you also don't know your own heart and mind! Please! I know for a fact that I did seek the answer I was promised in scripture and when I did, I could not have been more broken-hearted or contrite. I had not an ounce of pride at that point. I read my scriptures and asked earnestly having every faith that the answer would come. It didn't. It was devastating and I for one will not allow anyone to tell me that the lack of answer was MY fault. That is just too easy for the religious. Thanks for standing up for yourself too!
ReplyDeleteUm, PS. "and then you'll have my blessing" ????
ReplyDeleteWho cares? LOL.
Enjoyed your post and have added you to the list of blogs I follow so that I can also enjoy posts from you in the future.
ReplyDeleteI have also been told to not give up on the Church and that the Lord will show me the truth.
I don't know how many times in my youth I had prayed, "God make yourself real to me in a form in which I can understand and I will devote my life to you." I've often had moments of intense spiritual feelings of connectivity during my life but I never got the answer I was looking for.
I also agree completely that critical thinking and problem solving are two of the most important and under-utilized skills in modern America. I think if more schools taught these and other useful real world skills rather than mindless fact and event remembrance things might improve.
Hah, the nerve of some people. Not only does the commenter claim to know without any doubt exactly how the universe works, he also implies that YOU need HIS approval. The arrogance of many religious people astounds me!
ReplyDeleteI have it made! I never "had" religion. Yayy!
ReplyDeleteNo evil doubts lingering that I would burn in hell if I didn't submit to an imaginary being.....
I love your posts. I don't post very often, I like to read posts more than I like to write them.
ReplyDeleteVery well put. You're a great writer, I love your blogs entire concept. I quoted you here: http://twitter.com/xoalexis/status/7388184453
ReplyDelete"The dead end road you're on is easier, I'll grant you that, but it's short and not going anywhere."
ReplyDeleteEasier? Not going anywhere?
Well that's just stupid.
Atheism has more meaning than all religions together.
It's loving the world as it is. Not as someone made it. It's loving even when religion fails to do so.
"...he also implies that YOU need HIS approval."
ReplyDeleteWell put Spencer
"The Lord had more faith in you than you had in yourself it seems"
This is one of many examples as how religious people fail to even acknowledge the possibility that they might be mistaken.
You'll never have his blessing, because if you go back to church and don't feel the spirit, that means you didn't do it right. And he will have no choice but to invite you to give it "one more try" again and again until the results jibe with his church's teachings.
ReplyDeleteThe very existence of the apostate clashes with the believer's worldview. There simply isn't room for someone who has been fully immersed in the church, is not a slave to sin and addiction, and yet does not believe. You are the living disconfirmation of everything his church teaches. He has to explain you away somehow.
Thanks for all the comments! So nice to know that some people do get it!
ReplyDeleteIncidentally, I shared this link on my Facebook profile and got a comment from a friend that it should never be one last chance and I should try and try again.
AAAUUURRRGGGHHHH!!!! Some people just don't get it!
True, Leah. I've met a Roman Catholic before, she said: "If you really read the Bible maybe you won't be so anti-Bible anymore.". I kept on telling her, the presence of so many violent verses are enough to prove that the Judeo-Christian God is cruel and bloodthristy. She kept on ignoring it.
ReplyDeleteYes, some people never get it. (every religious people I meet)
PS: She never read the Bible fully either
That's an excellent response.
ReplyDeleteI remember when that comment showed up in the moderation queue at Main Street Plaza. (Every comment by a first time commenter passes through moderation first -- as an anti-spam measure -- and our policy is to allow any comment that isn't spam.) I was a little hesitant about it, but I think it's better to give a civil, thoughtful response to this sort of comment (instead of just deleting it, as some forums might). And I'm impressed by how well you rose to the occasion! :D
From one exmo to another - nicely said! :)
ReplyDeleteNice response Leah,
ReplyDeleteI have been on Main street Plaza for a while and have seen comments like Jeremy's before. They usually come on, make the Church accepted, scripted response and don't come back.
They aren't there to engage unfortunately. The only TBM, who does stick, around is Seth.
Wayne
Chanson, I'm glad you put the comment through and gave me the chance to respond.
ReplyDeleteBrent, thanks!
Wayne, Of course the TBMs aren't there to engage. That might be contentious and contention is of the devil!
Hi Leah,
ReplyDeleteI linked in from Debunking Christianity and was immediately grabbed by your wonderfully heartwarming photo in your sidebar. Thank you for sharing it.
Thanks also for your deconversion story. I hope more people put their minds to work as you have.
I can't even say how often I've heard that from my family/former friends who are still in the church. When I told my parents that I was leaving the church, the first thing they asked me was "are you doing it just so you can live the 'homosexual lifestyle'", as if not believing in the church wasn't enough, or as if I was just doing it to sin. They told me they could never accept that I was truly happy, and that what I was doing was right for me.
ReplyDeleteSoon thereafter, one of my uncles started leaving "anonymous" (I traced the IP address) comments on my blog telling me that he "knew" that I still had a testimony and that I still really knew, deep down what was right (the church) and that I was lying when I said I was a gay atheist.
I've found that at least for now, there is nothing I can do or say to convince them that I've living my life authentically. For them, there is only one way to live correctly, and if you deviate from that even a little, then you're wrong, eternally and completely WRONG!
The inherent hypocrisy in Jeremy's comment (and in my family's behaviour) is what is so frustrating. They expect us to do what they're not willing to ever do: consider that we're wrong, especially when we've already done that and found out that yes, we were wrong.
Unfettered thought is indeed a wonderful thing. Knowing that there is no right answer, least of all only one is wonderfully liberating (if a bit scary at times).
Contention is of the Devil and so is doubt.....
ReplyDeleteBasically, you just can't live. (seems so extreme)
Contention is of the Devil and so is doubt.....
ReplyDeleteBasically, you just can't live. (seems so extreme)
That's an excellent response.
ReplyDeleteI remember when that comment showed up in the moderation queue at Main Street Plaza. (Every comment by a first time commenter passes through moderation first -- as an anti-spam measure -- and our policy is to allow any comment that isn't spam.) I was a little hesitant about it, but I think it's better to give a civil, thoughtful response to this sort of comment (instead of just deleting it, as some forums might). And I'm impressed by how well you rose to the occasion! :D
True, Leah. I've met a Roman Catholic before, she said: "If you really read the Bible maybe you won't be so anti-Bible anymore.". I kept on telling her, the presence of so many violent verses are enough to prove that the Judeo-Christian God is cruel and bloodthristy. She kept on ignoring it.
ReplyDeleteYes, some people never get it. (every religious people I meet)
PS: She never read the Bible fully either
Hah, the nerve of some people. Not only does the commenter claim to know without any doubt exactly how the universe works, he also implies that YOU need HIS approval. The arrogance of many religious people astounds me!
ReplyDeleteEnjoyed your post and have added you to the list of blogs I follow so that I can also enjoy posts from you in the future.
ReplyDeleteI have also been told to not give up on the Church and that the Lord will show me the truth.
I don't know how many times in my youth I had prayed, "God make yourself real to me in a form in which I can understand and I will devote my life to you." I've often had moments of intense spiritual feelings of connectivity during my life but I never got the answer I was looking for.
I also agree completely that critical thinking and problem solving are two of the most important and under-utilized skills in modern America. I think if more schools taught these and other useful real world skills rather than mindless fact and event remembrance things might improve.
Leah, I love this so much. I feel like you've already answered all the hard comments I know I'll get, so by reading your answers I'm a little more confident and prepared to someday "come out" at church. I hope you don't feel this trivializes your experiences, but really, I feel that you having had them and writing these things so openly is a huge gift to the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteConifer, that means a lot! It's comments like this one that motivate me to
ReplyDeletekeep blogging, because I don't always get nice comments. So thank you.